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Friday, 26 July 2002 -
QW devellops (?) ? $comment_count ?>
I usually am not expecting too much when installing some new software and games in particular, but yesterday I was really dissapointed nevertheless. In fact, the last time I was really dissapointed must have been with the first Q3 test release, after the game had been hyped as the next big thing for half a year or longer. Yesterday, that feeling met its match when I downloaded and tried MQW for the first time.
Of course, I didn't read the readme or any other documentation that might have been present, but who does anyway. Also, last time I checked any messageboard, MQW was supposed to enhance the QW experience big time and attract hordes of new players. Opening the readme thus shouldn't be strictly necessary I'ld expect.
Since none of my server binds would work, I hoped the server browser could get me in a game quickly. I couldn't get the server browser to work. So I tried to remember a server name and type con[TAB] in the console, which somehow doesn't work as it used to (and the way it does in any FPS I remember). There must be some neat new ways of using cursor or tab keys in the console, I guess, but I couldn't quite figure it out.
On the server, things seemed reasonably normal except for the weapon binds and skin setup, which are (obviously) different from the Qizmo setup. That would take a few hours to sort out; the controls menu hasn't been improved so it will require manual tweaking. Quake 3 or even CS allow to bind specific weapons through the menu, if I'm not mistaken.
Worst of all though; my PC locked when I quit the program. I think I have a GForce2; not the most recent hardware, but pretty decent; something a typical newbie/TFC/Q3 player would also have installed, I'ld wager.
In short, is MQW the great newbie-enabler for QW? I don't think so. Which is pretty bad, because that is the most used (typically only) argument for people insisting on its use in leagues.
Besides the supposedly new players issue, there are more reasons for dissapointent. The whole point of changing over to a different client would be that it would be an evolving project, with continuous tweaking. But it seems the source code was finally released when the programmer didn't have the time to continue work anyway.
Yeah I know; I'm not being fair, am I? I've always had a bit of bias against this particular client and how it was develloped, but that's not something I have been solely responsible for if at all.
I'm much more dissapointed in the way the QW players haven't been able to set up a decent, standardised client. Initially, I was pretty sure we could do better then those Q3 players, who never could agree on Promode. Apparently the QW players are just as bad at getting their act together. We've had access to the source code for something like 2 years now, and this is how far we've come?
It's also pretty sad how people have been using all the wrong arguments (unavailability of source code, newbie friendliness) to promote this particular project over others. Had they devoted some time elsewhere, we might be better of today.
I guess I too will now have to move to GL for the transparent teleporters with the fullbright skins and keep up with the wall bugs and whatnot. Basically I'll switch because I have too, not because I particularly like the new client, much like I had to change proxies a few times over the years to adapt to changing league rules mainly.
P.S.: I tried again, using -dibonly as a command line parameter. That seems to solve the black screen PC dead problem, but somehow my desktop now ends up with only the top left icons visible.
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Just like you i was disappointed about mqwcl as well when i tried it the first time. It is not more newbie friendly at all. I really think that the user interface needs lots and lots of work. In fact user interface is something that without a doubt is really done well in both Q3 and CS. Of course i can invest some time to set mqwcl properly up, like you will sure do Jjonez, unfortunately for me one technical issue remains: fps drop by about 60% with a voodoo board. So mqwcl isnt an option for me at the moment although i'd really like to have fullbright skins under gl.
About the other things you mentioned... I have to think about that a bit and i will comment later but as usually it seems you are right. So - what are we going to do about it? |
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| Oh, an Azazello said on irc that he will be away for some two weeks because he has to work abroad. After that work on the client is supposed to continued. |
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| is qizmo+qwclleasoer tp set i[ tjam mqwcl? o dpmt tjoml sp.//// |
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well fuck knows what i said there but basicallyl i dont think tha tmqwcl is unfrendly to newbies compraed to qwcl+qzmo. lets face it, its a lot simpler to have everything in one client if you think a newbie can use qizmo withoth first reading the readme then i think tou are serverly mistakne
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Well its not exactly an argument in favor of a new client if the best that can be said about it is that:
"a newbie cant use this one either without first reading the readme, consulting a knowledgeable friend etc.."
I really dont get this client-discussion at all since qw+qizmo established itself(in a natural selection kind of way), was used by everyone and every league and then just because id releases the source and everyone with the interest can make their own clients with fixes and eyecandy and stuff, the players have to change? Why?
Play the game with the established 'choice' of the serious qw'ers(qw+qizmo) and lets get it on! Its that simple.
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a total newbie doesnt really need qizmo in the first place. getting QW to work sure can be tricky too, but with someone on IRC walking you through the process it's not unfeasible. no more or less difficult then MQW at least, like rabbit says.
in fact, im really wondering how we all by ourselves managed to get onto that first server as few years ago :) |
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| yeah I haven't tried out mqwcl .95/6 yet. I do think, however, the concept of having the proxy+client all in one simple extracting file is the way....and it seems mqwcl supposedly does this. Yet, it does need to go further in terms of simplification; I'd like it to have a really good in-game user inter-face -- something like cpm has, but better with more options for customization. That way newbs could extract and modify without opening up .cfg files or creating autoexec.cfg's. |
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it's good to see mqwcl GPL-compliant and I hope to see it being used in SD5 now.
on the subject of promode, to quote you: "Initially, I was pretty sure we could do better then those Q3 players, who never could agree on Promode. Apparently the QW players are just as bad at getting their act together".
erm, Jjonez, the promode team successfully built the client and the project has now been going for three years. we most certainly were not bad at getting our act together in that respect. afaict you guys haven't got very far in the client dept (what has happened to Strider's client btw?)
also, promode has been and continues to be used in many competitions. the latest involves 2 qw players, moreover, rat (Finland) and FienD (USA). since you guys resolutely keep your eyes tightly closed shut on these matters I can inform you that they are playing really good games, especially on our original promode maps cpm1a, cpm3 and now ffdm2. you qw guys are still using dm2, dm4 and dm6 right?
looking forward to the SD client, SD maps and future SD competitions using them :) |
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| by "Q3 players, who never could agree on Promode" I think he means that promode wasn't taken up as the main mod for play by all players, not that the players who played it couldnt agree on specific points about it. Could be wrong I guess. Either way, It's not a very valid comparison since new clients and such in QW aren't really such a drastic gameplay change as CPM makes to q3. |
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| it's just an opportunity to razz Jj and to pimp some cpm demos, actually :) |
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remember irony. i was recalling my high hopes for QW clients and the whole mess surrounding Promode some 1,5 years (maybe 2,5 even, should really check) ago.
you know as well as anyone that i am in fact a secret admirer of CPM, from an organisational POV at least.
and yes, i still play DM6 and DM2 on a nearly daily basis (never liked DM4). but hey, i was just watching a bit of tour de france, and almost a century after the first tour, these guys still use 2 wheels too!
no offence meant; much less taken; either way i bet :)
as for MQW being used for challenge smackdown: that isn't as easy as it seems at all. at least now we can seriously consider the possibility, which is good. |
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| Perhaps if using MQW in challenge smackdown isn't as easy as it seems, you should outline the problem areas so that they can be addressed prior to a potential season starting later this year. I suspect from out conversations in the past that one issue of concern to you may be regarding the inclusion of multiple clients in the same league. If that is the case please outline some specific problems you feel this creates. |
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| ill do so ht, as i was planning of course. |
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| JJONEZ YOU ARE HONESTLY THE BIGGEST IDIOT IN THE WORLD AND DESERVE TO BE LOCKED UP. sincerly - def |
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| I'm sure he will take this detailed and extensive character assesment on-board and attempt to raise his intelligence level to that of your own. I don't think there's a person alive who could refute the outstanding logic displayed in that post.... Well maybe Stez, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. |
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after your biggest (and the only good) argument against MQWCL is obsolete, you are desperately looking for new (and this time _really_ stupid) ones to keep it away from "your" league? that's what came to my mind first, when i read your column update.
mqwcl is a work-in-progress, so there is much space for further development and improvements. but nevertheless it is the best qw-client available atm and far better than the old qwcl. (newbie-friendliness might not be a real argument for mqwcl, but there are enough others)
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| raptor, read it again. and maybe again. |
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Jjones, so make your own client then if u think mqwcl is so bad, don't just sit on your ass and complain.
I think mqwcl is MUCH more newbie frinendly than qw+qizmo. And it will give ppl new to qw options that only "hardcore" players new about or had before. Like in mqwcl u get a lot of crosshairs, if u whant a very small single dot crosshair, simply type in crosshair 9 in the console. It would of course been better if u could do it in the menu, but it's still a lot better and easyer than the way every qw player that had played for some years would do it, witch would mean get a pak explorer, find gfx.wad, get adquedit, find conchairs, edit the crosshair osv.
The console is a lot better to, like if u dont remember a command, just type m and hit tab and every command that start with m is listed, that would help a lot for anyone not familiar with qw.
And specing is a lot better with mqwcl, the shaft looks the way it's suposed to, and team and enemy skins are correct displayed, where in qizmo u had to change team to the team u where specing to get the skins to work.
And btw, i think most ppl read the readme file.
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"In short, is MQW the great newbie-enabler for QW? I don't think so. Which is pretty bad, because that is the most used (typically only) argument for people insisting on its use in leagues."
breakitdown!
"In short, is MQW the great newbie-enabler for QW?"
It's much simpler than setting up QW/2.33. If you have a clean install of QW, you run it, you connect, and you're set to go. It's as easy, if not easier than QWCL by itself.
"I don't think so."
You are entitled to your opinion. Please do not impose it on others.
"Which is pretty bad, "
It's still only your opinion. If you asked the average 'newbie' in QW (we're really talking about smackdown newbies here imo) whats easier, and if they'd play in smackdown now they can use 1 client with no bollocksy proxy stuff, they'd always say 'MQWCL is easier, and yeah, I'd like to play in smackdown now.'
"because that is the most used (typically only) argument for people insisting on its use in leagues."
I don't remember people saying that 'MQWCL is the newbie-enabler of QW'. I remember people complaining about the difficulties they were having in setting up Qiz/2.33. While I think these people are idiots who should not be let loose near computers (cos really, setting up Qiz/2.33 isn't hard) I've come to the conclusion that there are lots of idiots in the world and its better to just accept them as idiots instead of fight them.
Allowing MQWCL would significantly increase the accessibility of smackdown rule-compliance. Plus, bhop pred feels nice when you dont have 28 or below ping. And rocket smoothing is nice on jerky cable connections. And fb skins are nice in GL (yaya for 800x600). And then there's those sexy .lit files and coloured lighting on missiles which makes everything look so purrrty. :)
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jj, you are amazing. this one cracked me up the most -
"I've always had a bit of bias against this particular client..."
that must have been a very dry humor attempt on your part. ;)
mqw is a bit more newbie friendly but overall it's not that much ahead of qw+qizmo(which are light years harder than nq/q2/q3). the only 2 things which make me think mqw is easier are the facts that it's only 1 exe(compared to 2), and you can manage cfg's without having to use a txt editor. it does however have more and nicer features once you learn them all. it's sad to say, but even some of the newer doom clients are more user friendly than anything yet for qw. |
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...why should i read it again? well, i did so and i didn't get anything new out of it. you wanna say "ok it's a fuckin bad client, but so many dumb asses want to play with it, so after my sweet argument is obsolete...let's allow it...hmm or maybe not..." ?
you intented to say something different? then you are the person to read your post again...and again...
btw. why do you admit to be biased towards mqwcl? i mean, tell us something NEW! *lol* |
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I tried to make 2 points in my column update:
- MQW is sadly not all as great as its been hyped up to be, especially in the newbie department
- It's pretty bad the qw players havent been able to come up with anything better
Of course, both are only my opinion, and if you feel 'imposed upon' by merely reading a column as driz apparently does, maybe you shouldn't read comments or editorials or columns in the first place.
So far, the second part got only touched upon by grindcore really. Since he seems to be living in an ulterior reality where people casually read readmes, he probably missed the SD-client I've tried to set up a while ago. For various reasons that didn't work out too well, but it does, even in his opinion apparently, give me the right to complain (impose) at least.
I might add that other people did in fact come up with alternatives to QWCL, but they never quite had the cheerleading squad MQW had.
As far as the newbie issue is concerned, I can't help but feel most everyone agrees with me: MQW is not all that newbie friendly afterall ('type a command and press tab' huh? what does a newbie need to type a command for in the first place? ah, but he read the readme! 'you can manage configs' but you can't simply bind the RL to a key?). At the same time however, MQW supporters do insist it absolutely has to be used in leagues exactly because of it's (apparently questionalble) newbie friendliness!?!
If I'ld presonally need convincing about using MQW in a league, you might want to try a different approach, because it is exactly this argument I don't believe too much in, as should be obvious from my post. (In fact, I've come to believe it's rather irrelevant for the league or QW as a whole, but that's another discussion.)
Raptor can stop rereading because indeed his summary is pretty close. |
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I think mqwcl is more user friendly to some degree. Quite a few German ex-CS/Q3 players have started giving QW a try and that number really has increased since mqwcl became the standard, so there must be some truth about it being more friendly for newbies. Besides, it's always easier to have one client only, when asking for help you don't have to ask again "Where do I do that? In quake, in qizmo or in text editor?", it's always the client. Never the qizmo and never the text editor (you can save your cfg/user data right in the game). It's of course not like every experienced Q3 player can start mqwcl and then immediately win a duel simply because the client is so user friendly but that's the game's fault and not the client's.
Anyway, newbie friendly or not is no real point anyway. In your personal opinion it shouldn't matter that much, you are not new. You know the tricks and should see these things improved that have always annoyed you. And if you're talking about mqwcl's future in Smackdown it should matter even less, after all (I think?) that's not meant to be a newbies' league, if people wanted to play they have to read, understand and accept the rules and those were clearly never easy. Help is provided to anyone who needs it of course :-)
I understand that your opinion about the client has been influenced by a lot of things over the months and years (?), there are several points that I dislike too, but you should give the client a fair chance nonetheless. You will then realise that in combination with Qizmo, mqwcl offers all the things that qwcl and qizmo offered - and more! Some people are more difficult to accept mqwcl's power than others. For example, I asked 123 ages ago if he had tried out that new mqwcl client and what he thinks about it (it was out for several months already). He answered that it's not worth trying a client that is disallowed in all competitions and not the standard. Later, he tried it and now he's one of the main guys behind spreading news about the project :) A few weeks ago, Apollyon tried mqwcl the very first time and he was very disappointed about it, just like you. The only reason for not using it now, is his fps problem with the client (his 166mhz monstaaaaaaar gives less fps than in qwcl) but generally he agreed that mqwcl is a fine client.
Now, it's your turn to accept that :-) |
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| well if qw is actually concerned about attracting players....this, to my mind, is not the case; but if it were...then mqwcl is not the way to go at all. What do newbs or q3/rtcw/doom3/q4 fans love most of all: it is to frag in glorious high textural detail...that attracts them until there is some other game that has yet more advanced graphics. The client for the attracting of people to qw is not mqwcl -- i like mqwcl best in sw actually -- it is in fuhquake. Fuhquake may have some of prettiest looking textures this side of estella warren; I think the coder, fuhrer or fuh, for quick reference, is adding in 24 bit models and detail to the client. Moreover, the mouse code is nicer in fuhquake than in mqwcl (i just tried it out); not sure if its a bug or what in mqwcl? Anyway as far as appearances go, fuhquake looks luscious like the tones and lighting textures in Lynch's Mulholland Drive. These things attract people...if only because they want to check them out. |
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You have mis-understood me. When I say 'please do not impose' I am requesting you not to impose your own personal opinions on others in the future, and I am under the impression that you are able to do this (re: smackdown). Please correct me if I am mistaken.
As for the second part of your column, I feel no need to address it because it's not something that affects me. I do feel you're way off track though.
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mqw is a LOT more newbie-friendly than qw/qizmo
cfg_save <-- that command ownz a lot of pro-qw/qizmo arguments imo :)
and thousands of game smoothing commands variables and stuff is included in mqw as well
"Since none of my server binds would work, I hoped the server browser could get me in a game quickly. I couldn't get the server browser to work. So I tried to remember a server name and type con[TAB] in the console, which somehow doesn't work as it used to (and the way it does in any FPS I remember). There must be some neat new ways of using cursor or tab keys in the console, I guess, but I couldn't quite figure it out."
yes there are new 'neat' ways of using the tab keys and other short cuts and if u never tried mqw its nothing surprising u cant find yourself running mqw, read readme first!I read every readme update to mqw and i have never had any problems with this stuff
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* Andy:
"... it's always easier to have one client only ..."
I agree, and that would indeed be one of the reasons for using mqw. But then later you say:
"You will then realise that in combination with Qizmo, ..."
WTF? So we'll need qizmo anyway? So what's the point in having "just 1 client", when you will have to configure qizmo anyway?
* Billy:
First line:
"mqw is a LOT more newbie-friendly than qw/qizmo"
Last line(s):
"... read readme first!I read every readme update to mqw and i have never had any problems with this stuff"
Reading several readme's just to be able to use the console efficiently imho does not make a newbie-friendly game.
why do people keep insisting that it's SOOOOO newbie friendly, when you HAVE TO read the readme first (several ppl have written this)?? If you read the readme of qizmo, you will also be able to set it up correctly ffs!!
So stop using this dumb, bogus argument please. If mqw is really so great, why isn't anyone able to present some REAL reasons for making it the standard client? |
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| You don't need qizmo (I do, i'm an ISDN user and want to play with a proper connection) but if using it there are absolutely no things you could miss from qizmo/qw combination. |
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MQW is worth it because it has jump prediction that works the same way as kteam's with the fixed bunny hopping code. Standard QW can't be changed to fix the problem that occurs because of the bunny fix and since most everyone runs around so fast these days, it'd make sense to use anything BUT standard QW as long as it has the fixed jump prediction. :)
MQW also has a lot of other fixes that make it much more "friendly" (it has bug fixes for other standard QW problems) especially regarding the networking and movement, of course, most are due to the side affect caused by the bunny hopping code introduced in kteams but there's lots of other little fixes that most newbies aren't aware of or need to be (maybe some who commented on here aren't either), regardless of being unaware, the fixes do make a difference so why not give MQW a chance to BE the new standard QW with it's fixes/enhancements, IMO after getting used to it, you'll never consider going back to standard QW again :D
Good enough reasoning? |
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if u dont like the interface / console / serverbrowser of mqwcl just dont use it. fact is mqwcl attracted a lot of new players. but u gave no reason not to allow it in smackdown anymore (maybe there are ones i dont know). for me mqwcl is on a good way to become a decent and standardised client.
And:
"Basically I'll switch because I have too, not because I particularly like the new client, much like I had to change proxies a few times over the years to adapt to changing league rules mainly."
Why do u have to change to mqwcl, just use qizmo/2.33 if u like it more or will u forbid that in future? |
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| Where did Jjonez write that mqwcl won't be allowed in SD5? Maybe we will make it mandatory for a change, muhahaahah. |
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i said in the last line that YOU read the readme if you have to, in case you dont know or havent discovered that yet, a newbie can set up all fps/graphics/basic movement options in mqwcl menu then write cfg_save and just write connect (ip), no qizmo menus, no .con's and stuff isnt that more newbie friendly ? :O another way of learning the new 'neat' ways of using the console / mqwcl enviroment is just from experience or u can ask players on servers & stuff.Newbies learn 90% from other players.You wouldnt know how to use every command of qizmo after running it once either. In fact u wouldnt know what to do in qizmo :)
u still havent answered my other argument :)
oh and on the readme stuff, i think 95% of players read the changes.txt when a new version is released
...and u can use mqwcl with qizmo but u dont have to,skywolf :O
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| in the first sentence it should be 'i said in the last line that Jjonez...' |
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Other argument? You mean the "cfg_save" command? I just learned yesterday that fuhquake can also do that, so why not use _that_ client (it certainly looks a lot better, so it would atract newbies more readily)?
And since newbies have to learn 90% from other players anyway, why can't they learn how to use qizmo? The only difference is that they have to put a "." in front of the commands ... WOW! Oh and btw, most qizmo features can be accessed from the menus (how is that for "newbie-friendlyness"?) AND you can save your qizmo config ... maybe you should read the qizmo readme? :P
And sorry to burst your bubble, but Qizmo will still be needed for security reasons atm I'm afraid Billy.
PS: Mr. Anonymous comes closer to a valid argument than you Billy, even if he is using some mysterious, hidden bugs in qw2.33 to make his point. |
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| If a client makes an appearance simply because it's more newbie friendly but less useable, Smackdown will make a joke of itself. |
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haha im not talking about cfg_save only :)
it has a lot of prediction commands, game smoothing, and u dont need another program (qizmo) thats an argument u cant overpower :)
andy: if it was less usable 75% of quakers wouldnt use it :)
so its both more newbie friendly and more usable
it also has a lot more additional non-game features, like mvd watching, a nicer server browser, demo_capturing :)
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"... and u dont need another program (qizmo) thats an argument u cant overpower :)"
Unfortunately Billy, mqw is not as secure as ppl want you to believe. So until mqw is made more secure stand-alone, you will still be required to use qizmo in any league that wants to be taken (at least a bit) serious. So for the time being, you won't be able to use your "nicer server browser" even if SD does allow mqw next season (unless you're not playing in a league of course).
"so its both more newbie friendly and ..."
Uh, I think I missed your _new_ argument that proves that mqw is newbie friendly here ...
And tell me Billy, where in your great newbie-friendly mqw client can I find all these wonderfull new features? Oh yes, in the readme of course! As a newbie I _really_ want to browse through all these neat console commands just to be able to change my nick or colors i'm wearing...
PS: Contrary to what you may believe, I don't hate mqw. I think it's great that ppl take the time to try and make qw a "more enjoyable" experience. I just hate all those mindless fanboys who seem intent on spamming all forums with "MQW 0WNS J00!!" in some way.
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i dont think that u need to use qizmo in nqr...(=not a bit serious league? :(
"And tell me Billy, where in your great newbie-friendly mqw client can I find all these wonderfull new features? "
a lot of game-improving variables/features are set_by_default :/
i think aza in the mqwcl forum stated clearly the security measures taken in mqwcl 0.96 nope why yes? :D
hmm why do every newbie player i meet use mqwlc? :( probably because his mom told him to =[[[ |
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Ignorance is bliss. MQW 0.96 is NOT secure. The addition of client authentication was a neccessary step towards security, but it isn't the only step needed. NQR was rushed into using mqw, keen as they are on pleasing the "majority" of players...
Why does every newbie use mqw? Just ask in #smackdown "what do I need to play quake?" or "what is the best qw-client?" and the channel gets spammed with the mqw-URL. |
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"Just ask in #smackdown "what do I need to play quake?" or "what is the best qw-client?" and the channel gets spammed with the mqw-URL"
...and that must have a reason, right? ;)
or do you think you are the only person who can seriously decide and consider what a good/secure qw-client is and what not?
i mean, what is "secure" anyway. a skilled coder would laugh about any security measures taken. |
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"Ignorance is bliss. MQW 0.96 is NOT secure. The addition of client authentication was a neccessary step towards security, but it isn't the only step needed"
im not a coder so i dont know about the security measures that well :/
I as a player know that I didnt need to have the source released which meant more possibilities of cheating...nor did any other players need the source =
i am sure azazello will work on the security of this client, cause imo he released the source as fast as he could, and the was sufficently advanced/secure(maybe not VERY) to have it released, ALSO because of sd5 coming
"NQR was rushed into using mqw, keen as they are on pleasing the "majority" of players... "
hmm maybe we should ask the NQR CREW? u are implying your judgement on them :/ imo there are some very experienced 'names' on their crew , so far not many ppl have questioned THEIR decisions
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I wonder how you talk about mqwcl's "jump prediction".
Did you guys ever try ZQuake/zqwcl? The smoothest and most neat gameplay/psysics on earth. |
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Well anyone checked the dates of the latest releases for both mqwcl and qizmo ???? The fact that mqwcl is UNDER dev now.. and qizmo is not is saying enough for me.. and yes mqwcl isnt much user friendly YET... im sure it will be :P
ahh and btw jjones ... if u cant make the server browser work maybe u should really read whats in the docs :P
None offence taken :P |
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| dire yeah ive tried them but mqwcl has both j pred's and is non-cheat :E |
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jjonez fuckin proplayer
make your own client |
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| WTF?? I cant use qizmo... playing qw only becuse os MQWCL... didint have any problems with it... and my computer is a crappy one... try a P166... works fine 4 me... face it, if there would not be 4 MQW there would not be ass many ppl playing QW as it now...!!!! |
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jizaz jjonez if u dont like mqwcl then dont use it ... its realy simple u know?
both qizmo and mqwcl r allowed in sm5 so i dont see any problem. |
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jizaz jjonez if u dont like mqwcl then dont use it ... its realy simple u know?
both qizmo and mqwcl r allowed in sm5 so i dont see any problem. |
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how did the sudden rush by mqw fanboys on this page happen anyway?
check out the date or something. |
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I personally think Azazello has done a WONDERFUL job on this client, I only wish he had more encouragment from the community rather than criticism, the new version of MQW is supposed to have some wonderful additions.
As for newbie friendly, I think its definatly better than qw2.3 Much better than QW2.3 + qizmo. But then again... who cares about newbies really, if you are a newb you should read the documentation, and who is going to just pickup and start playing Quakeworld out of the blue without someone helping them anyway?
About the source code, by realeasing the source code, no securty has been taken away, WHY? Beacuse MQW is no 2 executables. When you open MQWCL what it actually opens is The proxy, like qizmo, then it opens a program hidden away in the mqwcl sub dir of your quake folder called soft.exe or gl.exe. Those programs are what actually have the majority of the client information in them. MQWCL.exe has the securty, and IT is not open source because it doesnt have to be, just like qizmo. This is at least the way I understand it, having never downloaded the source code, however if you wish to contest me, I will download it and check.
I think the fact that Azazello is doing all this for free, for the community is great and I am glad to see that some people have the heart to spend so much time on a game they and others love.
^5 Azazello |
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| Lots of typos in that I know, "Beacuse MQW is no 2 executables" should have read "Beacuse MQW is NOW 2 executables" and I may have misled some people by calling mqwcl.exe a proxy, it is not really a proxy, but it is its own seperate process. |
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"MQW is sadly not all as great as its been hyped up to be, especially in the newbie department "
Well I think it's the players that has expectations and they are the ones who have hyped it up (if any1), mqw itself (and the team, aza) hasn't (from what I know) claimed to have built some new standard for the scene or anything, he has simply built a client to improve the conditions for the players. And he has developed it from the players demands to, for i.e when there was a lot of complaints about fakeshaft (which I btw don't get) then he removed it, cause the morepart of the players wanted it that way. I think it's sad he's not working on mqw atm, it's really sad, of course there are many other options, but the facts remains that he has developed a great client with a lot of nice features and it's INFACT easier to use then qw2.33+qizmo. It doesn't evn have to be great (evn though I think it is) every small step counts.
"It's pretty bad the qw players havent been able to come up with anything better"
Then do something about it?, have u ever talked to aza about your thoughts and ideas of the "scene" and what kind of client it needs?... and lets not forget this is a work in progress as some1 stated earlier, but now.. sadly maybe not even that.. :((
Just want to know, for how long did u try mqwcl? |
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