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Friday, 10 August 2001 -
QUAKE 4 Sucks! ? $comment_count ?>
Hehe, just wanted to be the first to say that. Well, if it's based on the Q2 universe, it must suck, right? Because as everybody knows, Q2 sucked!
OK, to tell the truth, Q2 didn't suck half as bad as some (who, me?) have made out in the past. It may have looked like you had taken some bad acid, visited a building supply store for crates, and then wrapped different layers of coloured plastic film over your head. But there was at least one decent map (q2dm1). The models may have been extremely "cheesey" (especially those coneheads - when they jumped they did a dance revue). Some of the weapons may have been quite laughable - the slooow rockets that farted along leaving a trail of multicoloured bubbles, the piss-weak phaser pistol. The "Stroggos" might have been somewhat giggle-inducing, sounding like a pasta gone wrong. But still, Q2 had the innovative RG (love it or hate it), some great team-play, the chain-gun, and a few other good things that escape me for the moment.
So it's not a given that a Q4 based on Q2 would suck, is it?
Tell you what is good though. It means that QW will remain somewhat "current", because the "Quake universe" and Quake name will be continuing on for a good few years yet. It also means that Challenge ProMode can look forward to porting over to Q4, if anyone wants to. It's true that there are arguments that it might be time to put "Quake" to bed and move on, but I don't bother listening to those arguments. So to me, Q4 is good news.
Apparently also Q4 will have a single-player focus (like DOOM3). As far as I can tell from public statements, id feel that they have pretty much "done multi-player" with Q3 and Team Arena, and who can blame them? Where that leaves Q4 in terms of future competitive FPS is anybody's guess, but the signs are there that it will be a "modern FPS game" - for which read: more like Deus Ex, Half Life, Max Payne etc, than like Quake 2 in terms of gameplay. So, expect more scripted sequences, real textures, real lighting, realistic models with a gazillion polygons, and stuff like that.
Q4 will be a fun game, and an exciting single-player experience, I'm betting, but the question remains open as to whether it will have the dual function of catering to both single-player and multi-player. The key issue is FPS, and the trend as we have seen with DOOM3 is for id to be aiming at a much lower "baseline FPS" than they did with Q3. 30 fps is what I've been hearing for DOOM3, and Q4 will use the "new DOOM engine". The jury is still out on whether you will really be able to turn everything off and get something suitable for high-performance competitive gaming.
One thing that is for certain with DOOM3, Q4 and the rest - it looks like pretty much everybody is planning their next computer upgrade on the basis of "getting ready for DOOM3". Very few people want to upgrade to a machine that won't be able to handle DOOM3 and it will be interesting to see if this has a measurable impact on the PC market.
UPDATE: Another thing in Q2's favour, that I missed, is that due to the slowed-down nature of the gameplay the 1on1 game had some nice strategic aspects. It may just be that you had to develop a strategy to pass the time while waiting for your rocket to arrive, but Q2 1on1 wasn't too bad either.
Also, another reason why Q4 might "suck" is because it is not being done by id Software. It's being done by Raven, who I have seen being criticised for making overly linear levels in SoF and that Voyager game (example: Planetcrap). Raven also don't have Kevin Cloud and that whole id art team at their disposal. Let's wait and see.
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...because:
An FPS which is sposed to be using Doom3's engine, which is sposed to deliver 30 fps on a GeForce3 (which is sposed to be amaaaazing, which we know from Steve Jobs) simply MUST suck ;)
And ain't I sposed to be serious (and ain't I sposed to write supposed instead of sposed although that is saving me a lot of characters?)?
Well, after all, I want a new game soon, not in some 2 years or so =) |
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I pretty much missed the first q1/qw frenzy. Back then there was just me and my clanmate xtc at his house with a covacs (spelling?) line between our machines and some guys downstairs playing quake 1 in software on our keyboards.
It wasn't until way later that we got online (gg Iceland) and discovered the wonderfull world of Quake, and then Q2 was out so we played that. Thus missing the rush that is Q1. I still do play it from time to time, but nothing like it deserves.
It's a sad fact that the first tournament ever held here in Iceland was a Q2 tourney... That's how late we really were.
So I pretty much grew up on Q2 after I got online, and then Q3. So I'm pretty excited about Q4 and pretty much can't wait for it. Of course I also can't wait for Doom 3, but that's another story :)
My only worry's thus far is the fact that id is not making quake 4, but I guess Raven is the only right choice for it, if not id that is, because they have a vast, vast, vast, vast experience in workin with id engines :)
So here's hopin :) |
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I pretty much missed the first q1/qw frenzy. Back then there was just me and my clanmate xtc at his house with a covacs (spelling?) line between our machines and some guys downstairs playing quake 1 in software on our keyboards.
It wasn't until way later that we got online (gg Iceland) and discovered the wonderfull world of Quake, and then Q2 was out so we played that. Thus missing the rush that is Q1. I still do play it from time to time, but nothing like it deserves.
It's a sad fact that the first tournament ever held here in Iceland was a Q2 tourney... That's how late we really were.
So I pretty much grew up on Q2 after I got online, and then Q3. So I'm pretty excited about Q4 and pretty much can't wait for it. Of course I also can't wait for Doom 3, but that's another story :)
My only worry's thus far is the fact that id is not making quake 4, but I guess Raven is the only right choice for it, if not id that is, because they have a vast, vast, vast, vast experience in workin with id engines :)
So here's hopin :) |
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| http://www.geocities.com/aragorn_39th/unf/ |
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I have to disagree with Raven being bad for Quake 4. I think they have designed some good games from licensed game engines.
People have pissed all over id something chronic for making Quake 3 the way it is. Remember the "id software have lost touch" comments floating around these parts in the not too distant past. Now all the id fanboys are jumping up and down because their favourite suck-up game company isn't making the next game in the line.
Abuse them, say they don't know what they are doing, then bitch because they are not making another sequel ? Cue the logic stick please...
I think giving the Quake license to a company like Raven could breath new life into the game. Seeing the game from a different perspective, taking it from fans of the game, Raven love games as much as they design them. Something id lost long ago.
JC may be the man in the technical department. But id lost the gameplay edge many years ago. Let dead dogs lie.
And 30fps on GF3 card ? WTF ? This game is going to be the next Myst adventure! |
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| Raven is the only company in my opinion that is suitable for the job. I don't think that they have ever produced a game that hasn't used an id made engine, and they are not in the habit of making pour quality games thus far.
And I stand by id all the way.. I loved Q1, loved Q2 more and still do, and also love Q3 up to a certain level.. But not as much as the prior two. Promode helps though.. :)
And I don't think id has lost anything.. They may have taken a step back in certain areas, but they are second to none at this time. Just because many many many people say that Quake 3 aint the shit, it don't mean that id has lost anything. They just didn't do things the way their old fans wanted them to do things. The amount of tolerance id has toward their fans and what they say to them is amasing to me. If it were me I'd had packed up and called it quits way back then..
I think it's silly to dictate to the makers how they should make things. Specially if those dictations are based on things the makers have already made.
This Quake 1/2/3 rivalry always amases me, and I just don't get it. The fact of the matter is that id has already done the new stuff. They have already broken the ground as far as gameplay is concerned, and now they just break grounds in order to find new and better ways to use those new features they invented way back then. It's unfair of us to judge them by their old work, no matter how much we love it.
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| Hopefully it won't be anything like Hexen II :/ |
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All the Quake's rock.
But Q2 certainly does NOT suck! Q2 is still played hardcore by many many people. |
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| lets leave q2 and qw references out of it? the game is made by raven who allways delivered a fun and memorable gaming experience. |
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| for q1/q2 the goal for a top of the line machine was 30 when it was release and 60 with doom3. So obviously Doom3 will run BETTER realtively than q1/q2 did when they were released. ppl just got spoled by q2 which produced 90 fps on semi descent machine (PII333) when it was released. we really dont need 125 fps you know only q3s fucke dup physichs makes it that way as QW has proven a stable 72 is more than enouggh.. |
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| Quake III Sux, Quake II Ownz! |
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| Quake III Sux, Quake II Ownz! |
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"It may just be that you had to develop a strategy to pass the time while waiting for your rocket to arrive" :)
I must say that I really loved, I mean loved, Q2, but anyway your partial comments are still very funny :) |
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You had to develop a strategy to pass the time while waiting for your rocket launcher to SWITCH. :)
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Well, there are a few things that rock:
I love SP games. They're usually a lot of fun to play through, and they mean we'll be able to do some speed-running again.
SP also gives newbies a way to get confortable with weapons etc in a much more enjoyable setting than a tiered FFA scheme.
SP games are inherently BETTER for online play because the carrot-weapon scheme fits the control concept a lot better than Q3's "all weapons are created equal" approach.
Visually, D3 and Q4 are going to chew the nuts off anything we've seen so far. Don't knock the eye-candy - Q1 was "too pretty" for us coming from Doom: the envelope needs to be pushed at every opportunity.
On the flipside, what's going to suck?
Deathmatch at 12fps. Online, the chasm between the 1337 machine crowd and the regular guy is going to be larger than it's been for ANY prior game. A Q2-era system (Celeron 450 and TNT) plays Q3 just fine with a bit of tweaking. But your 1.4Ghz/GF3 Q3 godbox isn't even going to make a dent in Q4.
How are the physics going to be? Strafejumping will probably stay, despite the fact that it's incredibly lame, simply because of the screaming that ensued last time it was removed from a Quake game, but even that's not a sure thing. Air control? No chance. Cute little bugs like Q2's djumps? Depends on QA more than anything else, which basically translates to how much time there is between the content being done and the mastering date to make Xmas sales. But all those exploits we've come to know and love are simply bugs, and with each generation of going over the gamecode, those bugs and new ones like them are less and less likely to stay around.
I guess we'll see. It's a long way off still and anything could happen, but ATM my gut feel is that it'll end up as a kickass SP game with almost zero online presence.
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| Q2 also had a decent SSG...I actually always get a kick out of it when Q1 guys complain about Q2's RL, when DOOM2 people (like myself) had to deal with the god awful peice of shit castrated horrible god awful SSG in Q1!!!! (I have Q1 SSG issues, okay) Anyway, I personally think revisiting the Q1 world would actually have better potential for a single player experience, but Q2's actual universe wasn't bad, and I actually liked Q2...and maybe (just maybe) they'll take a que from the GenerationsArena team for multiplayer (or at least implment a class system so that those of us who want to move fast CAN move fast). If they do go for some limited alt-fire stuff...then maybe the RL could have two modes...a faster reloading slower moving rocket and a faster moving slower reloading rocket...I don't know...right now I'm more interested in what the GenArena team is doing than Q4. |
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| The Thing is just because something is capable of a theoretical sum of possibilities, does not mean that they will be reached; In short, Just because the DOOM engine can push polys' like crazy and sport such detail, does not mean that Raven will incline themselves towards pure detail in Quake 4, given that it's going to sport multiplayer of some sort, You'd think they would make it less detailed. Considering that the GeForce 3 is a new kid on the block, and the next generation of nvidia's are around the corner, It may not be an issue, that which is of detail; I mean how many people got mad frames in Quake 3 when it first came out, compared to what is acheived now, even at the high resolutions? |
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| One thing I'm looking forward to is increased Air Control, Hopefully! Nonetheless, the conceptual art of that gladiator looks very interesting, heres hoping for really cool looking monsters. |
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| Didn't Carmack or someone from id say that when Q3 came out? |
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| How everyone forgets Unreal (not UT) as the most spectacular engine we've ever seen. The game has been put out in '98 or so and it already had realistic lighting which is known to be DOOM3's biggest "new" hit. |
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Hehe, funny q2 comments Hoony. You say: "Q2 sucked... well, excepting for teamplay, and excepting for1v1 strategies".
I agree. It sux for singleplayer. :)
As for Q4, All I know about it is that it's years in the future. Concentrating in the present, I just got dissapointed for the new of Castle Wolfensteing not having deathmatch, only a class bassed "strategic" multiplayer mode. :(
I was really looking fordward to see flamethrower duels. :P |
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| I think it will have DM as well (at least that's been said before by the developers) it's just that they're pushing this teamplay mode in a big way, because its hard to get the average player interested in DM (sadly). |
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If we follow the trend of gameplay changes from Doom -> Q1 -> Q2 -> Q3, then Q4 should probably:
- be turn based (the only viable way to reduce speed even more)
- have weapons that do at most 10 damage per go (yet do damage as long as the enemy is in view, which is fixed to FOV 60 btw for added realism).
- have no jump key and no strafe keys
- have so many jumppads that this thing called "manual movement" is a thing of the past (pfew)
- have a weapon that just randonly kills someone in the map, for added newbie fairness
- network code will be require you to stand still for 3 seconds to be sure you have actually arrived at that spot
- maps are made out of randomly composed 10000 poly objects that have textures skinned on them made largely out of pink, orange & bright green blobs, and have no noticable theme.
- the SP game will be so incredibly realistic that its all set in your bedroom, with hires "decals" for the stains on your bed and scripted sequences that produces them.
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- Cetra - "QW has proven a stable 72 is more than enouggh.."
This is not true for me - I love QW's gameplay, but I've grown accustomed to 100+fps in the last 2 years. The fact that QW won't hit higher fps numbers DOES affect my enjoyment of the game. Of course you forget about it after a bit of playing, but all it takes is booting up ANY newer game to remind me of how much I like $eeing my upgrade$ paying off.
Please: Don't EVEN START with the 'the human eye can't notice more than 70fps' nonsense.
- sturm - "How everyone forgets Unreal (not UT) as the most spectacular engine we've ever seen. The game has been put out in '98 or so and it already had realistic lighting which is known to be DOOM3's biggest "new" hit."
The lighting in Unreal is not remotely "realistic". The new technology in the DOOM3 engine appears to be something off of Unreal or any other current engine's scale - "per pixel" being the difference. From the reports over the weekend I get the feeling that had you actually been at QuakeCon and seen the DOOM3 footage you would never have made this comparison.
I'm pretty certain that DOOM3's lighting is what will cost the most power on your pc, and complex lighting has classically been a feature that can be disabled or set to a simpler mode.
Let's hope Raven has a clue as to the existence of CPM. There's alot to be learned from it and any Quake game that misses the little things CPM has been careful to preserve will be a failure in my book.
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LMAO! Aardappel, I wub j00. :)
72fps is still a bit nasty, yeah. I'm not really comfortable below 90. |
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Dont let Raven do QUake 4!....
oh you dont mean CHAU raven. |
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if a p3 500 128mb ram with tnt2 cant run the fucker then fuck it off
im not gonna spend shitloads of cash just for a game
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that's the way it is... 2 bad no1 will start playing cpma :/
dunno how qw managed 2 take off like it did |
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| bug lol, but ... so true :/ |
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