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Wednesday, 28 June 2000 -
Introducing Heavy Duty! ? $comment_count ?>
Got a great new map for you to check out - Heavy Duty, by Mr.CleaN. I really like this map and can strongly recommend you check it out. And don't forget to tell us what you think in the comments!
Here's the background. Barratus and myself created a new section called CHWD_Maps, designed to bring mappers and players together. Up until now, mappers and players tended to inhabit parallel universes. Barratus lined up some talented mappers and I've lined up some experienced players, and I'm proud to introduce the first of their mapping collaborations - Heavy Duty, by Mr.CleaN.
Heavy Duty is a map which is probably unlike any you have seen before. It is designed specifically for competition 1on1 and it shows. The map has benefitted from having design input from a|citizen and other experienced players. You can read about the design concepts and changes that citizen suggested in our review. Here's a snip from citizen:
After much playtesting the map's gameplay ended up very much like I envisioned it. The design promotes fast and furious action while stealth and suprise are rewarded as well. The overall map is not controllable but some of the key elements are. I look forward to playing this map in future tournaments. :)
Finally, I must say that it was a very positive experience working with Mr.Clean. He is very talented and was totally open to my suggestions. I plan on and look forward to helping him out with future maps in any way I can. I think we learned alot from each other.
The result is a map which I believe really fulfills the goal of bringing mappers and players together to produce exciting competitive gameplay. Check it out.
Comments
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Kudos to everyone involved for making a plan about the maps situation and seeing it through. I've really enjoyed mrcq3t2, so I'm looking forward to trying this one out too.
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Quite a bit larger and more open than CPM1/3, which is a good thing for variety's sake. Nice use of multiple lines of sight to make up for a lack of footstep noises in trying to find the other player (while still keeping r_speeds in check). I've only played it a couple of times but so far so good, against bots anyway. One random note: the room dimensions happen to make rocket travel time about equal to weapon switch time, so it's fun to try to get your rocket to hit the other guy at the same time as you rail him. :-P
I do have a nit to pick, and that's about the use of plats. Not really the use of plats per se, but the fact that when you use them, you have to supply plat sounds, since id forgot to do that. The problem is that the plat sounds have specific fixed names, so the plat sounds from one pk3 will clobber the plat sounds from another pk3, depending on the alphabetic order of the pk3 names. As an example, I have the map OverUnder currently installed, and that map's author also chose to use plats, like Mr. CleaN did. Since overunder.pk3 comes after mrcq3t3.pk3, the plat sounds from OverUnder are the ones that get played whenever I use the plat in Heavy Duty.
Not that big of a deal, but basically when you include plat sounds in your pk3, you are either going to clobber the sounds of some other map author that also did that (kinda rude), or else their sounds are going to clobber yours (kinda unfortunate). Did you really _have_ to use a plat there instead of a door?
If it turns out that plats have some special quality that makes them attractive to CPM mappers, then maybe the CPM mod should change the name of the plat sounds, include standard plat sounds with those new names in the CPM mod pk3 itself, and have the CPM maps reference those sounds when necessary (rather than rolling their own). Of course then the plats in the CPM maps would make funny buzzing noises if they weren't used with the CPM mod... oh well, whatever.
Enough of that. Nice map. :-)
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Personally I thought the map was very nice. I can't really say all that much about gameplay since bots really don't give you the true experience. The only thing I'm missing is the ability to do more trick-jumps, unless I've overlooked alota jumps, there aren't really that much you can do. Now I'm not sure if it's just really hard to make maps in q3 containing the ability to get an advantage over your oponent simply by executing afew spectacular jumps. This may not be a good reference, but q2dm1 was so widely played, mainly because of the insane amount of cool jumps you could perform. So if your hopes for this map is that it'll stick around, and get some play-time in tournaments for a longer amount of time, I think its important that you create a map that has the potential to evolve.
Then again, this might just be me not seeing things.
Anyway, food for thought.
Nice work Mr.Clean and Cit :) |
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I feel that this map is way too big. The LG is useless in most cases, and rockets take all day to reach your target. In other words; this map is all about rail.
I won't say the map-design hasn't got potential in it self, but it is just too darn big the way it is now.
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| this map is waaaay to open, which promotes the use of the LG and RG, which slows down gameplay allot. This is not a map for CPM cause it's boring. This map is all aim and no strategies. I admit i only played a game on it, but it was the most un-fun game i ever had with the CPM... |
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I dunno, Nirvana, personally I doubt that the ability to circle-jump to the MH (or whatever) was the dominating reason that people played q2dm1 so much. Trick jumps are a nice lagniappe -- $1 word for the day! :-) -- but I don't think that every map has to be stocked to the gills with them.
Now, that being said, just in a few games I've already run across some useful jumps in mrcq3t3 that require a strafe jump or even a speed-runup to clear the distance. There might not be a whole lot of neat jumps in there, but they do exist.
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I guess I should admit that I was never a frequent Q2 player, so I could surely be wrong about the appeal of q2dm1. :-)
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...there are several cool jumps and the map is quite fun. perhaps it appeals more to q2 players who are used to the openness of q2dm1, but there are several ways to suprise your opponent and use rl/shaft combos to dominate. there is a cool circle-strafe jump to the mega from the ya too. :) i'll make a demo of this map in the current cpm next time i am lanning with someone (lan demos are much more fun to watch imho).
citizen |
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The appeal of trick jumps is that you have to discover them :) Trying to 'force' trick jumps on a map takes away their charm a little, they become like puzzles in Tomb Raider then :) I think map authors just have to put a lot of ledges and small borders against walls, around windows etc and the tricks will revelate themselves. Look at the 160 Q2 trick jumps in Polosatiy's impressive demo pack, I think less than 20 of those were intended by id's level designers. They're possible because id's Q2 maps had many details in the shapes and no clipping brushes, whereas id's Q3 maps only have detailed textures and more clipping brushes than actual brushes I think :/.
An example in this map: I saw a stairways going down while curving to the right in this map. The wall on the left side of the stairs, that curves with it, has a pattern in its texture that gives the illusion of a ledge that you can jump on. Unfortunately it's not really there; it should be. |
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I've added this map (and several other recent releases) to the votables on the duel server at kitty1. That's _not_ a Pro Mode server, FYI. Anyway there it is if you want to get a friend and try it out on a neutral (west coast U.S.) server. See http://kitty1.stanford.edu/ for details.
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Totally agree Godsmurf, that was what I was trying to get at, guess I didn't do a too good job. I just thought there weren't enough stuff to jump on. So there really was no real potential for trick jumps to be discovered.
Johnny Law: I honestly think that all the fancy jumps you could pull of on q2dm1 was atleast a big reason that it was so popular for such a long time. But you might be right :)
To the guys that think this map is too big: Isn't it better to have a map-pool with different kinds of maps, that require different kinds of skill, and not just the fast paced q1 style maps. Maps that are fun to play will be popular no matter what. And I don't really see a problem with the size, considering they use dm6 for 1on1's.
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| goddamnit(rapsey kicks his own ass), i took another shot at it and it's a great map the item placement is perfect, first impressions suck ass-i learned my lesson :) I now place it right up there next to CPM1, good work Mr. CleaN |
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I just wanna say I really like this map, and I`m an ex QW:er =)
I really hope to see this one in the cpm map pak for the next release as well as DieHards skullduggery which I think is great for 1on1 but I have the illusion that it will rule in 2on2. |
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